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+--- Thread: Ground water observation in Southern California (/showthread.php?tid=162)
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RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Skywise - 10-31-2014
(10-31-2014, 05:49 PM)Island Chris Wrote: Hi Tony and Brian,
Tony, I'm not going to actually do anything myself with this information. But UCSB professor Jim Boles is interested and sent this email asking questions. He said I could post. He also said I could give you his email address, but I prefer to not post email addresses; you can find it online if you want to contact him directly. I suspect Jim has not gone online and looked at your posts or links.
"Chris; interesting observations. is there a GPS location for this?
could be a pipeline leak, or maybe one of those spontaneous combustion
sites nearby? Are there nearby oil field activities? jim"
(Brian, I can email you his email address if you don't want to look for it, but quicker to look for it).
Chris
Here's a google maps URL centered on Towsley Canyon.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=33.819089,-117.640228&spn=0.876229,1.772919&z=10&output=classic&dg=brw
After looking at the pictures it reminds me very much of Silverado Canyon. Same type of flora.
And then I remembered something. Since it's been so dry the Silverado Creek has been dry for some months. But I recently noticed water in parts of the creek. I just chalked it up to runoff from fighting the brush fire back in September. However, it's been a month and half and the water is still there.
Probably zero connection.
Brian
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 10-31-2014
I found him and sent him an email.
Thanks for passing it along.
Tony
RE: Ground water comments from Prof. Jim Boles - Island Chris - 11-01-2014
Hi Tony and Brian,
Jim Boles sent the following email to Tony and I and said OK to post. UCSB professor Jordan Clark may also be interested.
Tony, can you post the email you sent Boles? I'm interested.
Chris
On 11/1/2014 11:16 AM, James Boles wrote:
> Gentleman: I did some quick research on the possibility of oil
> occurrences in the Towsley Canyon area, using Volume 2 of California
> Oil and Gas fields from the Calif Div Oil and Gas. Turns out this area
> is part of the Newhall oil field, and is referred to as the Towsley
> Canyon area. Native Americans used to soak up oil from seeps in the
> canyon with blankets and oil was mined in the area prior to 1876. The
> discovery well was prior to 1893 and peak production was in 1955
> (presumably its abandoned today?) Production is along a tightly
> folded, NW-SE trending anticline referred, the Pico anticline. The> is formation water associated with that oil field (formation water in
> this part of the Newhall field is reported as 4300 TDS, which is
> relatively fresh for oil field water). The sudden appearance of the
> anticline is cut by the Climax fault, which extends to the surface
> (source of leakage?). Thus my guess is that this "new" water reported
> oily water at the surface is probably from movement with buoyant
> hydrocarbons (gas charged?) along faults and/or leakage from old well
> casing. jim
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Skywise - 11-02-2014
(11-01-2014, 05:56 PM)Island Chris Wrote: On 11/1/2014 11:16 AM, James Boles wrote:
> Gentleman: I did some quick research on the possibility of oil
> occurrences in the Towsley Canyon area, using Volume 2 of California
> Oil and Gas fields from the Calif Div Oil and Gas. Turns out this area
> is part of the Newhall oil field, and is referred to as the Towsley
> Canyon area.
Looking 3 miles due south of Towlsey Canyon I noticed an apparently still active oil field visible in Google maps imagery. This is the Aliso Canyon Oil Field on the geologic cross section images I posted earlier.
http://www.socalgas.com/safety/aliso-canyon.shtml
Per the link for the Southern California Gas Company, the depleted oil field is used for underground storage of natural gas, and is currently undergoing an expansion project. I've not read the details on the linked site yet.
But given the data in the cross section map, those wells appear to me to be in unrelated geologic layers that are different from those exposed in and near Towlsey Canyon. I don't see how there could be any fluid flow from the gas storage area towards Towlsey Canyon.
However, I'd like to float another idea, at least for the water flow. I was talking to my sister who has lived in Silverado Canyon for over a decade. I mentioned how there's suddenly water in the creek when it had been bone dry and no rain all summer. She says it happens every fall, saying that as it gets cooler the water table rises. Not sure if the explanation is valid, but apparently it's not an unknown phenomenon for the fall.
Brian
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 11-02-2014
Hi,
The email I sent was as follows in its entirety:
Dear Professor Boles,
I understand that information that I posted regarding a ground water
observation in Towsley Canyon, Santa Clarita, California was passed along
to you by one of the members of the earthwaves.org board. I was advised,
per the board, that you might have an interest in the information. It was
suggested that I contact you.
The GPS coordinate for the location (per Google Maps) is: 34.355913,
-118.578261
At this location, there is a dry stream bed. I hike this area several
times a month. Throughout the summer, the stream bed has been "bone dry."
A week ago, however, I went back to hike and noticed, not only that the
stream bed was filling, but that water was beginning to pool and flow.
There is no irrigation in the area. There is no contemporary oil drilling
(the last drilling to take place decades ago). There has been zero
precipitation.
Not only is there "spontaneous" flow, but there is surface leaching
within the "narrows" that are west bound on the trail through Towsley.
I spoke with one of the rangers and, while his statements were a little
ambiguous, he stated that he noticed changes after the Napa 6.1 quake.
In any event, I am just a lay person with zero background in this area.
Myself and several other regular hikers thought this was a worthwhile
observation. So, I am passing it along.
Here is a link to a directory where there are some materials that I
posted: http://appeals-writs.com/geo/
Feel free to contact me shoudl you have any questions.
Best -
Tony
Anthony D. Zinnanti, Esq. SBN 196778
LAW OFFICE OF ANTHONY D. ZINNANTI
An appellate and post-conviction practice
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 11-02-2014
Hi,
For what it's worth, I'm always out hiking the canyons here in Santa Clarita. I have never seen water accumulate absent precipitation. When it does rain, and there is pooling, flow, etc., the duration is in accord with the usual factors of temperature, etc.
In any event, it will be interesting to see what the respective thoughts are on this.
Tony
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 01-04-2015
(11-02-2014, 03:18 PM)zinnanti Wrote: Hi,
For what it's worth, I'm always out hiking the canyons here in Santa Clarita. I have never seen water accumulate absent precipitation. When it does rain, and there is pooling, flow, etc., the duration is in accord with the usual factors of temperature, etc.
In any event, it will be interesting to see what the respective thoughts are on this.
Tony
Just as a follow up, there have been three quakes about seven miles due north of these observations; a 3.1 on December 30, 2014, a 3.1 on January 3, 2015, followed by a 4.5 about 15 minutes later. It appears that the quakes occurred on a fault running immediately adjacent to the San Andreas.
Tony
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - PennyB - 01-04-2015
(10-29-2014, 02:41 PM)zinnanti Wrote: Hello All,
I was a member of the board for years; now back after a lengthy hiatus. I hope all is well for all.
I am no scientist, let alone a geoscientist. I am posting to share an observation that may be of interest.
I regularly hike a trail in Towsley Canyon which is in the southern portion of the Santa Clarita Valley outside of Los Angeles, California. It is obviously a very seismic region given the visible features, etc.
The area has been bone dry - except for within the last week and half. The path I hike crosses over a "dry" stream bed. There hasn't been any water in it for year now.
However, the other day, I was back on the trail after taking a month off from hiking it. As I proceeded on the loop trail, going southbound at the northwesterly portion through a slot canyon, there was significant ground water that appears to have suddenly emanated from . . . somewhere. Specifically, there was a new pool of water that I estimate is 16 square yards in size, as well as significant water that suddenly appeared in the creek bed. The water, at some locations, was mixed with light oil.
Around the base of the hill, there are oil bubblers and a sulphur vent near the top of the hill. On the easterly side of the hill, the oil flow has picked up considerably and actually flooded the stream bed.
I looked into alluvial/groundwater activity as a possible quake precursor. (http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/17/1693/2013/hess-17-1693-2013.pdf) Anyway, again, this is just an observation - not a prediction, and I don't want to get into one of those infamous EQ board debates. I pass this along for anyone who is interested in the observation.
Towsley Canyon has a ranger station. The number is (661) 255-2937 in the event you want to reach out and ask questions.
Best -
Tony
I noted that a 4 plus quake occurred today (1/04) near this area. Wonder if there is a connection? Thoughts from anybody?
Penny
RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 01-05-2015
Hi Penny,
It certainly seems to have some attention. It would be interesting to know if there's a correlation. I'm not a scientist - just an outdoor guy with a little bit of knowledge about California's earthquake past.
This subject was moved over to a new thread.
Best -
Tony