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Ground water observation in Southern California - Printable Version

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Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 10-29-2014

Hello All,

I was a member of the board for years; now back after a lengthy hiatus. I hope all is well for all.

I am no scientist, let alone a geoscientist. I am posting to share an observation that may be of interest.

I regularly hike a trail in Towsley Canyon which is in the southern portion of the Santa Clarita Valley outside of Los Angeles, California. It is obviously a very seismic region given the visible features, etc.

The area has been bone dry - except for within the last week and half. The path I hike crosses over a "dry" stream bed. There hasn't been any water in it for year now.

However, the other day, I was back on the trail after taking a month off from hiking it. As I proceeded on the loop trail, going southbound at the northwesterly portion through a slot canyon, there was significant ground water that appears to have suddenly emanated from . . . somewhere. Specifically, there was a new pool of water that I estimate is 16 square yards in size, as well as significant water that suddenly appeared in the creek bed. The water, at some locations, was mixed with light oil.

Around the base of the hill, there are oil bubblers and a sulphur vent near the top of the hill. On the easterly side of the hill, the oil flow has picked up considerably and actually flooded the stream bed.

I looked into alluvial/groundwater activity as a possible quake precursor. (http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/17/1693/2013/hess-17-1693-2013.pdf) Anyway, again, this is just an observation - not a prediction, and I don't want to get into one of those infamous EQ board debates. I pass this along for anyone who is interested in the observation.

Towsley Canyon has a ranger station. The number is (661) 255-2937 in the event you want to reach out and ask questions.

Best -

Tony

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Skywise - 10-29-2014

(10-29-2014, 02:41 PM)zinnanti Wrote: Hello All,

I was a member of the board for years; now back after a lengthy hiatus. I hope all is well for all.

Hi Tony. Welcome back!!!


(10-29-2014, 02:41 PM)zinnanti Wrote: I regularly hike a trail in Towsley Canyon which is in the southern portion of the Santa Clarita Valley outside of Los Angeles, California. It is obviously a very seismic region given the visible features, etc.

I just looked the area up on Google maps. Looks like a wonderful place to hike. Are you planning to go again soon? Maybe you could take pics if there's anything to see?

I don't know much about the geology of that area, but it's pretty obvious from the shape of the terrain there's much that could be going on.


(10-29-2014, 02:41 PM)zinnanti Wrote: I don't want to get into one of those infamous EQ board debates.

A lot has changed since you've been gone. The bickering took quite a while to die off. But I'm not going to dredge up old stuff. The past is the past.

Earthwaves is effectively a new place with a new future.

I hope you decide to stick around and participate.

Brian

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Island Chris - 10-30-2014

Hi Tony,

this is an interesting and useful observation. Brian, if you continue to be interested, you might compare the location to the USGS or SCEC earthquake site to see if there is any microseismicity. I'll have to ask if I can post it, but someone sent me a direct email saying her dogs had very strange behavior, about 2 days ago, but that was in Colorado.

I had a couple of classes in the early 1990s from structural geologist Rick Sibson, at UCSB. He taught, and published papers, on the relation of fluids to earthquakes. In particular, he mentioned vast amounts of water being released after the 1950s Kern County major quake, as well as others. A long time ago I went on a field trip along the Wellington fault, New Zealand, and one of stops was some field where there were all kinds of mud piles with springs right along the fault. On the other hand, I'm not as aware of the kind of behavior you mention being precursory to a quake, although I would not rule it out.

Yes, we badly need more "new" people to post here (yes, you are a New old person).

Chris

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 10-30-2014

Hiya -

Thanks for the warm welcome back. Funny to think that I've been watching/posting on this board for well over a decade in some form or another.

I went out today and did some very comprehensive iPhone photography of the water flows and pooling. I will put together a lightbox and post a link with captions.

This may be a nice research opportunity for someone. The water flow is considerable. And, when I say "flow" I mean flow. It all came out of nowhere over the last several weeks.

Post pics in the next few hours.

Tony

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Images and Video Links Posted - zinnanti - 10-31-2014

Here is a lighbox of the images from today. Again, the significance of this is that this pooling and seepage of water was not there three weeks ago. This creek bed was bone dry, except for a little bit of mud at the coolest, dampest location in the narrows.

The video shows considerable water flow. Maybe there is an opportunity for volume measurement. Given the drought, one of the benefits would be to measure flow without the complication of precipitation.

In any event, y'all are the scientists. I'm curious to know your thoughts on this.

Lightbox: http://appeals-writs.com/geo/lightbox/default.htm

Lightbox Image Legend: http://appeals-writs.com/geo/TowsleyWaterFlowLegend.pdf

Video of Water Flow: http://appeals-writs.com/geo/video/IMG_1448.MOV

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Skywise - 10-31-2014

I've done some quick digging. Towsley Canyon is in the Santa Susana Mts.

I found a nice page which shows cross sections of the geology. The Pico anticline is to the south. There apparently were some oil wells in the past.

http://www.elsmerecanyon.com/anticline/anticline.htm

[Image: xpico.jpg]

As for seismicity, this area seems to be "upwind" of the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, which I seem to recall caused the Santa Susana range to rise up several inches.

From http://crack.seismo.unr.edu/htdocs/students/CHAVEZ/scec95/scec95.html

[Image: davnam.gif]

Brian

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 10-31-2014

Also, just one qualification as you look at the images. There is greenery/fresh plant life in some of the images and video. The rest of the area is obviously parched. These areas are the most damp even when dry. So, the plant growth is not indicative of the pools having been in continuous existence. They just grew out of the damp soil.

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - Island Chris - 10-31-2014

Hi Tony,

Posting by your last name through me off; I remember your posts as Tony. I just forwarded the link to this thread to 3 earth scientists. Don't know how interested they will be. The most likely to be interested is Prof. Jim Boles of UCSB. He has studied the spontaneous combustion of landslides in the back country of Santa Barbara or Ventura county. IW (Island Wife) has worked on seeps, generally below the seas/ocean.

One question is whether there are any active oil fields that might have had injection and/or fracking.

Chris

RE: Ground water observation in Southern California - zinnanti - 10-31-2014

"One question is whether there are any active oil fields that might have had injection and/or fracking."

- Nothing that I can see for miles and miles. The only oil drilling/mining activity that I know of took place many decades ago. I included that one picture of the old oil drilling pipe.

Further, there is no irrigation in the area. The nearest irrigation is at least a half a mile to the northeast where they keep the lawn watered at the ranger station.

By the way, I am putting the photos in the public domain. Feel free to distribute, publish, use, whatever.

When I went up there yesterday, I ran into a ranger. We chatted briefly. He said that he noticed some changes after the Napa 6.1. I don't know what that meant, or if he really meant anything at all.

If you need me to go back and double check on anything, let me know. I go hiking there all of the time.

Tony

Questions from UCSB professor Jim Boles - Island Chris - 10-31-2014

Hi Tony and Brian,

Tony, I'm not going to actually do anything myself with this information. But UCSB professor Jim Boles is interested and sent this email asking questions. He said I could post. He also said I could give you his email address, but I prefer to not post email addresses; you can find it online if you want to contact him directly. I suspect Jim has not gone online and looked at your posts or links.

"Chris; interesting observations. is there a GPS location for this?
could be a pipeline leak, or maybe one of those spontaneous combustion
sites nearby? Are there nearby oil field activities? jim"

(Brian, I can email you his email address if you don't want to look for it, but quicker to look for it).

Chris